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1/03/2022 4:14 pm  #1


The All-Time Boxing Classic

Have you ever wondered who would win a hypothetical Heavyweight Boxing fight between Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson?   Or perhaps a fight between "Sugar" Ray Leonard and Floyd Mayweather Jr.?   Or what could happen in the event of any potential combination of boxing legends getting in the ring together?   And most importantly, who is the greatest boxer of all time?

Today, Boxing Promoter Stickman announced from his home in a press conference that we could get the answers to all those questions while introducing the All-Time Boxing Classic (ABC), a round robin tournament format featuring boxers who are enshrined at the International Boxing Hall of Fame (IBHOF).   

"Getting into the IBHOF means you are recognized as being among the best of the best to ever step into the boxing ring", explained the excitable Stickman, "All of these guys are legends in their own right.  But every fan has always wondered and debated the question, who really are the absolute greatest boxers of all time?   Well, wonder no more!  The debate will be settled with the All-Time Boxing Classic!"

Even days ago, suggesting that one could somehow get hundreds of all time great boxers, many of whom are dead, together to somehow get into a grand boxing tournament would have been laughed of and had the person suggesting this concept evaluated at the nearest psych ward.   However, after the recent scientific discovery of being able to transform the hologram of a person into a fully functioning 3-Dimensional human with all the skills and intellect that the original person had, anything truly is possible.   Stickman stated that the ABC will be using this technology to get the participants of this tournament together, promising that each fighter will be at their absolute peak in terms of skill and athleticism.

Stickman also explained some basic format details about the All-Time Boxing Classic, including how many weight classes there will be (8), how many fighters in total are included (274), and why there are no Women's tournament (the IBHOF only has 9 women total, and no more than 3 that'd compete in any one weight class).    He promised more details to come in an up coming press conference to explain the finer points of the tournament and to announce its participants.   "As I conclude this meeting today, let me just say this.  If you're a boxing fan and are not excited to see the All-Time Boxing Classic, what the heck is wrong with you?"


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1/03/2022 6:23 pm  #2


Re: The All-Time Boxing Classic

Alright, here are the details for how I'll be running this tournament!

1. The All-Time Boxing Classic (ABC) is a boxing tournament featuring 8 weight classes.  No way was I doing all 17 of the currently recognized weight classes by the 4 major organizations (the WBA, IBF, WBO, and the WBC, the last of which actually having 18 friggin' weight classes.  Ridiculous.).     Below are those weight divisions we will be using...

Flyweight               (Weight Limit: 112 pounds)   There are 19 fighters in this tournament.
Bantamweight        (Weight Limit: 118 pounds).  There will be 22 boxers in this weight class.
Featherweight        (Weight Limit: 126 pounds)   We'll have 32 fighters in this division.
Lightweight            (Weight Limit: 135 pounds)   There are 42 fighters in this division.
Welterweight          (Weight Limit: 147 pounds)    There are 42 fighters in this division also.
Middleweight          (Weight Limit: 160 pounds)   The are 43 boxers competing in this weight class.
Light Heavyweight  (Weight Limit: 175 pounds)   There are 36 fighters in this division.
Heavyweight          (Weight Limit: None)             There are 38 men in this weight class.

2. There are 274 total fighters in this tournament.   I did say in the 1st post that these boxers are all inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame (IBHOF).   That doesn't mean everyone in the IBHOF is included though.  Boxers in the IBHOF are separated by category, Old Timers (fighters who's last fight was before 1990), Modern (fighters who's last fight was in or after 1990).   Everyone in those categories are in this tournament.   There's also a Pioneer category of fighters who fought their final fight before the Marquis of Queensbury Rules were invented, (very important set of rules that determined many of the rules of boxing that we take for granted today, like the 10 count for a knocked downed boxer for example).  I choose not to include those boxers as they really came from a totally different era of boxing (plus the simulator I'm using didn't include most of these boxers anyway).   As mentioned last post, there aren't any women's divisions in this project either, only due to how few women fighters are inducted in the IBHOF currently.   Even eliminating all weight classes (which wouldn't be fair anyway) wouldn't give us enough fighters to justify their inclusion.  Sorry ladies!  

3.  This is a round robin styled tournament, meaning everyone fights everyone else in their weight class.  It's always annoying when the best fighters don't fight each other for whatever reason, robbing us of potentially amazing fights (see Floyd Mayweather Jr avoiding Manny Pacquiao for years until Pacquiao was past his prime).  In the ABC, that problem is avoided.  The fighter with the best record at the end of the tournament will be declared the winner and will get the unofficial title of The Greatest Fighter in _____ (insert weight class here) History!   (EDIT: In the event of a tie, the 1st tiebreaker will be head to head result, the 2nd tiebreaker will be strength of victory meaning who won against the better competition, determind by opponent's combined win %.  finally, if there's still a tie, a rematch will ensure)

4.  The ABC's ruleset will follow the Unified Rules of Boxing.
     a. 12 Round Fights (in boxing, fights can be of different lengths such as 4, 8, or 10 rounds depending on the experience of the fighter or if a fight is a title fight.   While 12 round fights are usually reserved for title fights, since this tournament consists of many championship caliber fighters, I figured I'd go all out and treat all fights like title fights anyway!)
     b. No 3 Knockdown Rule (Normally, if you got knocked down 3 times in a round, you lose the fight.  Not in the ABC.   You could get knocked down 4 times in a round, then come back to win the fight by knocking out your opponent in the next round).
     c. You cannot be saved by the bell.   The timer will continue even when a boxer is knocked down and the referred is giving them the 10 count.   If you are knocked down with 5 seconds to go for example, the bell will ring, usually ending the round.   In the ABC, you are NOT saved by the bell, if knocked down just before the bell rings, you still have 10 seconds to get onto your feet.   If you fail to do so, you are considered knocked out.
     d. Mandatory 8 Count is in effect.  A mandatory eight count is an 8 second count that a fallen boxer must take when he gets back on his feet following a knockdown.  It allows the referee time to decide whether the boxer can continue the fight.
     e. There are 3 judges who score each round under the 10 Point Must system (if you win a round, you get 10 points, losing that round gets you 9 or fewer depending on knockdowns.   Both fighters receiving 10 points in the same round is possible if a judge decides neither person won the round).  If the fight goes all 12 rounds, the boxer with the most points wins the match).  
     f. Only the referee can stop the fight.   While doctors can advise a fight stoppage, the referee alone makes the final decision.  This rule was originally put in place to cut down on fight fixing.  
     g. Technical Draw Through 4 Rounds, Scorecards After 4 Rounds rule is in effect.   This means if a fight gets stopped in the first 4 rounds due to an accidental headbutt, the fight is ruled a draw.   If this happens after the 4th round, the fight is determined by the judges scorecards.   Whoever has the most points wins the fight!

5. Scheduling: There are going to be 43 Rounds of fights in the ABC, which is how long it will take to give everyone enough time to fight everyone else in their weight class.  The schedule was generated randomly, I didn't cherry pick high profile fights to be at the end of the project or anything like that.   What the generator gave me, I'm going with.  You probably noticed I don't have the same amount of fighters in each weight class, (perhaps not surprisingly, fighters in the bigger weight classes tend to be more popular and famous and therefore have something of an advantage when it comes time to pick new entries into the IBHOF).  Since I'd rather have fights in all weight classes at the end of the tournament rather than the beginning, this means the first few rounds will only feature a few weight classes, with more weight classes being added as time goes on.   Here's how the schedule will go.

Rounds 1-2: Middleweight (Yes, we'll only have fights in one weight class in the beginning)

Rounds 3-6 : Lightweight, Welterweight, Middleweight

Rounds 7-8 : Lightweight, Welterweight, Middleweight, Heavyweight

Rounds 9-12: Lightweight, Welterweight, Middleweight, Light Heavyweight, Heavyweight

Rounds 13-22: Featherweight, Lightweight, Welterweight, Middleweight, Light Heavyweight, Heavyweight

Rounds 23-24: Bantamweight, Featherweight, Lightweight, Welterweight, Middleweight, Light Heavyweight, Heavyweight

Rounds 25-43: Flyweight, Bantamweight, Featherweight, Lightweight, Welterweight, Middleweight, Light Heavyweight, Heavyweight

As you can guess, this is going to be one heck of a long project, (I don't even know how many fights it's going to take to complete this!) so patience will be necessary as I find time to put all of these fights together!   

6. Finally, I will be using OOTP's old (but classic) computer simulator game, Title Bout Championship Boxing 2.5.27 to simulate the fights!  

In conclusion, I know this was a really long post and I kinda have a feeling this could be the norm for this project.  Nonetheless I'm really excited to get this started and I hope you are too!  In the next few posts, I'll be introducing all of the participants in each weight class that will be competing in the All-Time Boxing Classic!   I'll be starting with the Flyweights!   They may be little, but that don't mean that they can't pack a punch!

C & C are always welcomed!

Last edited by Stickman (1/03/2022 7:02 pm)


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1/04/2022 2:26 am  #3


Re: The All-Time Boxing Classic

Love seeing a boxing series on these boards, stoked to see this one progress. Let me know if you need any help or graphics or anything. Go ABC!


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1/04/2022 10:54 pm  #4


Re: The All-Time Boxing Classic

Can't wait to see Marciano versus Tyson! Or Foreman versus Tyson! I want to see Tyson get his a$$ whooped.


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1/05/2022 10:36 am  #5


Re: The All-Time Boxing Classic

Osgiliath Guard wrote:

Can't wait to see Marciano versus Tyson! Or Foreman versus Tyson! I want to see Tyson get his a$$ whooped.

Not gonna lie, Foreman/Tyson is probably the #1 all-time fight on my wish list.  I'm excited for that one too!   Then again, I could say that about probably 50-100 fights that will happen, haha!   Glad your excited!   I'm working on getting some charts together (won't be anything crazy, but it'll have quite a bit of information in it) to present, should have the next post up in the next day or two once I'm happy with my template!
 

Last edited by Stickman (1/05/2022 10:39 am)


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1/05/2022 10:42 am  #6


Re: The All-Time Boxing Classic

Steelman wrote:

Love seeing a boxing series on these boards, stoked to see this one progress. Let me know if you need any help or graphics or anything. Go ABC!

Glad your excited!  And thanks for the offer to help with graphics!  I might have to take you up on it!  
 


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1/05/2022 1:34 pm  #7


Re: The All-Time Boxing Classic

Stickman wrote:

Osgiliath Guard wrote:

Can't wait to see Marciano versus Tyson! Or Foreman versus Tyson! I want to see Tyson get his a$$ whooped.

Not gonna lie, Foreman/Tyson is probably the #1 all-time fight on my wish list.  I'm excited for that one too!   Then again, I could say that about probably 50-100 fights that will happen, haha!   Glad your excited!   I'm working on getting some charts together (won't be anything crazy, but it'll have quite a bit of information in it) to present, should have the next post up in the next day or two once I'm happy with my template!
 

I didn't like Tyson before, and then my dad showed my his fights with Holyfield....and yeah....I hate him. Marciano is probably my favorite boxer so it'll be awesome to see that happen!


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1/06/2022 9:22 pm  #8


Re: The All-Time Boxing Classic

Tonight we introduce the Flyweights that are participating in the All-Time Boxing Classic!   Keeping in mind that boxers can easily compete in many weight classes throughout their careers, I decided to sort the fighters by where Title Bout Championship Boxing 2.5.27 put each fighter, (I trust that they would know better than I where to put every boxer!). 

For this weight class, I took fighters listed in Flyweight (112 lbs), Junior Flyweight (108lbs), and Strawweight (105lbs) (yes, 3 entire weight classes are separated by a whopping 7 pounds.... again, boxing has way too many weight classes!).   These guys might be the tiniest fighters in the ABC, but as you'll soon see, these Hall of Famers can still pack a punch! 

So without further ado, here are the 19 boxers who will be participating in the ABC!  Hope you enjoy the chart below!  All fighter names and stats come from boxrec.com, an excellent resource for stat nerds like me!  (For those just curious about boxing and aren't too in the know, to briefly explain the stats below.     Height is obvious, but reach -the length of a fighters arms from one fingertip to the other- is very important too.  The bigger the reach, the better!  N/A just means I wasn't able to locate a reach on boxrec.com.  WI = Wins, LO = Loses, DR = Draws, and KO = Wins by either Knockout or Technical Knockout -TKO-.)

https://i.imgur.com/R0HVVd7.jpeg


Below, I have also included links to each fighter's IBHOF bios!   I think those are a nice little read to understand fighters you aren't as familiar with, (especially with this weight class, as most of these guys aren't going to be well known by causal or curious boxing fans).

http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/brown_newsboy.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/brownal.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/canto.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/carbajal.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/chang.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/genaro.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/gonzalez.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/gushiken.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/johnson_mark.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/labarba.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/lopez.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/lynchbenny.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/ohba.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/perez.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/villa.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/wilde.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/wolgastmidget.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/yuh.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/zapata.html

And finally, to add a little spice to this, we all love (or hate) pregame prediction shows where over-paid analysts talk about who they think will win the match.   The ABC is no different, having hired 5 well respected (or at least famous) sports analysts to predict who they think will win this tournament.   

They are...Johnny Armando: A well respected sports journalist who's had his fingers in every sports for decades. His predictions tend to be safe, but reliable enough.

Dick Dingleberry: A crusty guy who probably is old enough to remember there really only being 8 weight classes. Tends to favor the boxers from the early days.

Jebediah McAllister: Raised Amish until he left during Rumspringa to follow his love of boxing.  He's the type who makes his picks on who's beaten who. If you've got a good record against fellow Hall of Famers, he'll probably pick you to win.

Chee McGee: A well loved boxing personality whose sound bites are hilarious.  He's a firm believer that modern fighters will always have the advantage due to improvements in athletic training and the raise of boxing analytics.  He makes his predictions accordingly.

Chip N. Daylin: A well known fitness guru who happens to be an alleged boxing fan.   His predictions are usually just based on who's got a lot of knockouts, but to be fair, there are worse things to base your picks on! 

PREDICTIONS
Johnny Armando: Picking Ricardo Lopez here.  There's a reason he retired undefeated.  Not saying he won't lose here, but I'm confident he'll prove himself the greatest Flyweight of all time!

Dick Dingleberry: I believe Jimmy Wilde will give you young'ens an education on boxing!   He might be frail, but the man packed an incredible amount of power in his punches.   No one ever did figure out where he got his strength from. He didn't lose a fight in 93 fights, which is 3rd all time in boxing history!  No way he loses this!

Jebediah McAllister: Newsboy Brown fought 4 of his fellow Hall of Famers and never lost to any of them!   He's battle tested and I'm confident he's winning this tournament!

Chee McGee: It's fitting he's the son of a butcher, because Humberto Gonzalez is gonna chop up the competition!  He's got some of the strongest hands boxing's ever seen, pound for pound!  He's gonna win and I predict he's gonna bring some respect to the division with his knockouts!

Chip N. Daylin: He might be a little squirt at under 5 feet tall, but Pascual Perez knocked, like, a bunch of people out!  He's like a little Rocky Balboa out there, knocking all the Mr. T's out!  Oh yeah, he's also an Olympic Gold Medalist too!  That matters, I think?  So, I'm picking him to win!

So there you have it!  Hope you enjoyed this presentation!  C + C is always welcome!  I'm still a little new with this chart making, but I look forward to improving as the project moves along!  Next up, a giant leap in weight class (6 pounds anyway.....) with the Bantamweight division!  

Last edited by Stickman (1/06/2022 9:34 pm)


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1/06/2022 9:52 pm  #9


Re: The All-Time Boxing Classic

Great start! Love the commentator crew you've put together. Very fun!


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1/08/2022 9:34 am  #10


Re: The All-Time Boxing Classic

Good morning! (Or afternoon, evening, or whatever is appropriate at the time you're reading this)  Today, I'm excited to announce the fighters competing in the Bantamweight Division in the All-Time Boxing Classic!  This weight class consists of fighters who are considered Bantamweights (118lbs) and Junior Bantamweights (115lbs) in the Title Bout Championship Boxing game I'm using to simulate the fights.  

Here are the participants for this Bantamweight Division!

https://i.imgur.com/pTyBsRu.jpeg


Here are the links to their IBHOF bios!
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/barry.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/canizales.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/chandler.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/coulon.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/escobar.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/galaxy.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/harada.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/harris.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/herman.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/jofre.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/ledoux.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/lynchjoe.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/mcgovern.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/moore_pal.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/moran.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/olivares.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/ortizmanuel.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/pintor.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/tapia.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/taylorcharles.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/oldtimer/williamskid.html
http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/inductees/modern/zarate.html

And of course, our boxing panel is here to present their predictions for who they believe will win the Bantamweight portion of the All-Time Boxing Classic!

Johnny Armando: I believe Fighting Harada is still the only person to have won both the Bantamweight and also the Flyweight title in boxing history (though not at the same time).   Considering there was only 1 champion in each division and 10 divisions at the time of his career, I think that says a lot about his talent.   He's also the only person to have ever defeated Eder Jofre, who'd be another really good pick!

Dick Dingleberry: Pete Herman's going to win this battle.  Back in the day, boxers fought all the time against the best of the best and Pete was no different.  He's fought against 5 of his fellow Hall of Famers (usually more than once!) and only 1 of them had his number.   He was a real fighter, not like these cowards today who pick and choose their fights and never show up to the ring!   Herman was so active, he literally fought a 20 round fight the same day after he got married, (seriously, you kids today could learn something about dedication from that man)!   Plus, it's known he was blind in one eye for his last 5 fights, but who knows how long he dealt with vision problems and he still was a great champion!  He won't be dealing with that handicap in this tournament.

Jebediah McAllister: It's funny you bring up Pete Herman fighting Hall of Famers and that only one of them had his number, Dick, because that's who I'm picking to win this tournament!  Memphis Pal Moore might be a surprising pick for some people with his high number of losses and low amount of KOs, but this guy was a crafty veteran who seemed to do nothing BUT fight champions and Hall of Famers, (he battled over 15 current or future world champions and 10 participants that are in the ABC, though many of them are in different weight classes)!   This tournament is about fighting only the best of the best for the entirety of the contest, which will be a new experience for most of these guys who fought champions and Hall of Famers, but not all the time.  Not for Memphis, who'll probably see this as just another day at the office.  That battle tested approach will make him the winner!

Chee McGee: I seriously can't believe that nobody's talking about Carlos Zarate!  He's one of only two boxers in the history of the sport (along with another Bantamweight in this tournament Ruben Olivares) to have two different strings of 20 of more straight knockout wins in a row!   His opponents better not sleep on him the way this panel is, or else he really will make them go night-night!

Chip N. Daylin: As impressive as Zarate's power is, Chee, there's another knockout artist that like, really wowed me!  Khaosai Galaxy could punch you out of the solar system with 41 knockouts in 47 fights!  And what a fitting name too!   I'm calling him the Star Wars Warrior, because he's gonna blast off on this tournament!  (Dick: The Star Wars Warrior?  Wasn't his made up last name goofy enough already?  Chip: Wait.... that's not his real name?  Dick: No, you idiot, it's not! It's common for boxers to use nicknames as their name.  You think Fighting Harada was named Fighting by his parents?  Chip: He wasn't!?  Dick: Good grief!)

We'll see you all next time with the Featherweight Division participants!  C + C, predictions are always welcome!

Last edited by Stickman (1/08/2022 10:11 am)


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